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Haha the only issue is that I’m TERRIBLE at reading him. Unless he’s really blunt or outright says something is okay or he wants me to do something, I completely miss it. He could be hinting nonstop that he wants to kiss me or he wants me to spend the night, and I’d probably miss it.
From a guy perspective, or outside perspective, do you think him and his friend are talking about me while they play right now?
They might be since you’ll see him afterwards and they could be talking about the situation form his side, but then again he may not be. It’s hard to tell because tennis is such a distracting activity to do and it’s hard to talk while you’re playing. If his friend asks him about hat he’s doing after, you’ll get brought up, but anything past that is kinda up in the air. I know that’s not very helpful, but with how much attention tennis requires, it’s hard to judge.
You’re entirely right. That was probably a silly question. I guess I’m just wondering whether he thinks about this or talks to other people about it at all. I’d guess he’d have to, but who knows? Although, like I said, my coworker/friend told me that he’s constantly mentioning me randomly. Particularly in reference to how I’ve seen his new apartment and how he showed it to me. And that every time we (Kara and I) talk, he comes up afterwards and asks her what’s up or what’s going on. Every time without fail.
I always come home feeling like such a moron for expecting myself to be strong enough to speak my mind and for thinking he actually cares.
If I’m making a really long night shorter, we had dinner and it was good. I sort of helped him make it, but he really did most of it on his own like he always does. The episode of TV was really good. We had plenty to talk about after it ended and were both surprised with what occurred this season. The sex was good. He was blunt about what he wanted, I was straightforward back, and we made each other feel good. He came before I did and apologized for not getting me off, then asked if I wanted him to. He did pretty quickly. I told him it’s hard for me to initiate anything when he just asks straight up and I don’t have time to even get to that. He worked really hard not to beat himself up and laid down with me for awhile on the floor. We didn’t really cuddle wholeheartedly but he absentmindedly rubbed my shoulder and my arm and he smelled my hair. We had a lot of honest conversation after that. Some of it personal or intimate, some of it just small talk. I cried because I was so proud when he played his finished song for me today and he told me it wasn’t pathetic at all and he held me while I did cry. He told me he noticed my hair and that I looked really nice. He told me his view of my butt and my body is one of his favorites and acknowledged that he checks me out at work in the same way I do him (“Who says I don’t look at you or your butt?”) He constantly asked me what was wrong or what I was thinking, and I generally tried to tell him. I asked him what was up with him and he got all quiet and sad looking at I told him that he didn’t have to tell me if it was upsetting or hurting him, but that I wanted to know. He was never able to spit anything out. Towards the end of the night, it got awkward because I was hoping he’d invite me to stay, but he never did. He also never asked me to leave, he kept just saying he was really tired. I finally told him that it puts me in an awkward position when I want to stay and I can’t tell if he wants me to go because he just keeps saying he’s really tired and that’s all that’s up. And then I worry that what I want, just staying put, clashes with everyone else’s wants and needs and I’m making things difficult unintentionally. He told me he was sorry and that he didn’t mean to make me feel like that. He also told me to just tell him what I want. I finally said I’d wanted to stay and he said he was sorry he couldn’t make that happen. He gave me two hugs good bye and cracked some jokes about me bringing “lawyers” for the eggs in the morning because we have some weird thing about lawyers and avocados and he outright told me he was trying to make ME happy and ME smile. He offered to drive me home or walk me home and I said no. I was leaving and just said if he was going to bed then I wouldn’t bother texting him to let him know I got in safe. He started declaring loudly that he wanted to make sure I’m safe right as I walked out the door.
I can’t tell if he just wasn’t ready for that yet or if all his silence was because he was thinking about how hard this is for him/how he doesn’t like being apart from me but he’s not sure what to do. Either way, I feel like an asshole and feel like I ought to not be talking to him. If he wanted to see me or talk to me, he’d figure it out. I don’t know. I think he showed a lot of positive signs but the fact that he shut down and apologized for not letting me stay made me feel weird. I feel like I overstepped my place and he said he worries about doing that all the time. I feel like he won’t respond to the text I just sent him, even when he wakes up, and like I ought to just skip talking to him or planning on going for eggs unless he directly invites me. I’m just so torn. He acts just like we’re a couple but clearly hasn’t wrapped his brain around that yet. I don’t know how to get him to do that. I don’t think NC is a good idea in our case because of how he reacts to that, but if he’s going to turn me down just staying the night, I feel like only replying to him couldn’t be a bad idea. I’m just so lost. I can provide more details if need be but I’m really wanting to figure out what to do here. I don’t want to blow this or feel like all hope is blown when that makes no sense to me in my head at this point.
He really does care and has feelings for you. It’s obvious. The problem is that he doesn’t know what he wants, at least that’s how it seems. I think that maybe he’s confused because as you said he doesn’t see it as a relationship. And that’s why I think you shouldn’t be intimate with him because you have to show him that intimate comes with a relationship. Right now you just give him everything, you are there for him, he knows he already has you and that’s why he’s not rushing into relationship. I’ve never experienced that myself but from my point of view it will just hurt you in the end and won’t get anywhere. He needs to figure this out on his own and as you saw he isn’t sure about what he wants. I think you should hang out with him and maybe even kiss him but I don’t think you should get past this stage.
I think the problem is either that he doesn’t know what he wants, or he does know what he wants and he’s pulling away against the idea. For the most part, he tries to act cool and collected and just merely friendly. He tries to act like this is blatantly not a relationship (because it technically isn’t) and tries to display only the appropriate amount of interest, commitment, and emotion to that idea. He acts like he made his choice and now he feels like he has to stick with that because he can’t admit he’s wrong or can’t take it back. But when personal things come up or he has any sense of negative emotions from me, that facade falls away. If I breathe “too deeply”, look away from him at the wrong time, sit quietly and don’t say anything for an extended period of time, am not smiling, etc., anything that potentially conveys that I’m unhappy, he tackles it. He constantly asks me what’s wrong or how I’m doing. If nothing is wrong, he cheers up and continues to smile at me and act happy. If something is wrong, he’ll pester me and pester me until I give him any inkling of what I’m thinking or feeling. If there’s even the remote possibility it has to do with him, he apologizes over and over again for making me feel poorly. He doesn’t act like people who are broken up do. He genuinely cares about my emotions, what I’m thinking, and how he can personally take care of me to make those things better. When things are hard for me, even if it’s just me complaining about how hard it is for me to carry a big thing of cat litter three blocks home from the store on my own, he’s there. He literally told me he’d start coming to pick it up and walk back with me, or he could load a bunch in his car. And it’s partially because of those actions and that tendency that I wonder if he really does know what he wants, me, but he’s just too afraid or mentally blocked to act on it now.
Of course, it could be that he still just doesn’t know what he wants. He said that last weekend when he was shutting down. And he did start to shut down last night. I could see the physical transition of when he hits that point that he’s thinking so much that he’s in his head and not really there with me and it’s dragging him down. He kept asking me what I was thinking, so I’d tell him. And finally I asked what he was thinking. It was like he wasn’t even there, he was so far buried in his own mind. Eventually, I just told him that he didn’t have to tell me if he wasn’t ready or it was painful, and he just gave me this pained look and the subject changed. I think it’s possible that maybe he did want me to spend the night, hence not telling me to leave or what not, just saying he was tired. At a certain point, he even said it was time for sleep and he still just smiled and didn’t say goodbye or tell me to go anywhere. It was just the second that I tried to muster up the strength to talk to him and tell him that that was what I wanted that he seemed to definitively say good night and give me a big emotional hug. It’s like he’s so afraid that if we do anything remotely relationship-like, he’s permanently roped into me or he’ll be unable to stop himself from going overboard and just allowing everything before he’s mentally sound.
I’m just at a point where I don’t really know how to give him the space to figure things out, but still fulfill the desire we both have to be around each other and spend time together. We both admitted that there had been multiple times that week where we’d wanted to see each other or wanted each other physically and neither of us had acted on them because we felt like it wasn’t our place. And we agreed we should stop feeling like that. It just seems so clear to me that this is essentially a relationship, it’s just not how OUR relationship has ever been before so he doesn’t see it. And I don’t really know how to balance denying him or saying no or ignoring him enough that he gets it with the fact that that’s generally not what either of us want. And this just makes me feel like I’m losing him or making a fool of myself. I feel so stupid for even asking to spend the night or contemplating going for breakfast this morning.
I agree that it seems like it doesn’t know what he wants, but I think that majorly stems from the fact that he is getting the relationship without being in a relationship. He gets to have sex with you, and spend time with you, but its all on his terms. Theres not a lot of incentive for him to make it official, when hes getting all of the perks of being in a relationship without actually committing to one, if that makes sense.
The result is that you seem to overanalyzing and overthinking every little thing to where it almost seems like its consuming you, and based on what you type, you seem totally miserable.
I dunno, I just think this is really unhealthy, and if you don’t take a stand and get him to either commit or walk away, you’ll stay in limbo land and get more and more hurt and confused as it goes along.
I appreciate what you say, Hanna, and know that is all probably correct. I just don’t really know what my options are at this point, and am subsequently finding it hard to do anything differently than what I’ve been doing.
Not to be rude either, but I think it’s really easy for people to just look at the negatives and say I’m letting someone walk all over me and I’m making myself miserable without understanding how hard it is to deal with the fact that most of the negatives don’t outweigh the positives. You can tell me that I’m giving him everything he wants with no consequences and not taking care of myself, or can tell me to just stop talking to him or doing anything. But at the end of the day, you’re not the one who also has to deal with his advances, the nice things he does, the way he reacts when I’m not in contact, etc. It’s really really hard to try and balance both, and it’s not like I’m unaware that I’m not doing a great job.
It’s also really hard when I feel like he cares and loves me in my gut, people on the forum tell me it’s clear he cares, my friends tell me it clearly sounds like he cares, my coworkers see that and tell me all the time, but I’m expected to have no hope whatsoever or shut him out. I know I probably just sound whiny and ungrateful for the feedback at this point, and if that’s the case, I apologize. I just don’t need more people telling me I’m letting him walk on me right now because I know that. What I’m really searching for is a good way to broach this and how to balance these things. And maybe that’s unrealistic and no one else knows how either. But I’m still going to ask because I have to try. Any advice on what someone else would do in my situation given these circumstances is helpful.
I agree with @Hanna Nelson and @Oshi . As my best friend says, “don’t let them have their cake and eat it, too.” I think the best way to go about this is don’t give him everything he wants because then there’s no chase. Don’t give him nothing because then it seems like you don’t care. I would say talk to him about dating but don’t put a label on it. I still wouldn’t give into everything he wants in that case, but at least that way, the pressure of a “relationship” doesn’t stem from it being a title as compared to commitment. If you tease him enough with what he wants and you take the pressure away, I think he’d come around because that way he gets to look at that cake, but he doesn’t get it. If he really wants it like how he’s been acting, then he’ll make that step soon enough and actually head back down the relationship path.
I brought up dating without a label, but did a poor job of explaining what I meant. And he’s still so confused that he just shut down and said he didn’t know what he wanted a bunch. So I’m kind of done trying to talk about the relationship for the time being. We both need a break from that at this point. He’s made it clear to me in two different discussions that he’s not pursuing other girls right now, so no need to dwell on defining anything at the moment.
I went and talked to my case worker this morning, then went to his house for eggs like we’d talked about. I was there for about 45 minutes before he walked me home and went to play tennis with his buddies. While we were eating, he asked me about my schedule for the day and seemed to be tracking on when I have class. He also casually mentioned that he has nothing to do today after tennis, and I know he has two more days off work too, so I think he was trying to get me to ask him to do something. I let it go and said nothing. If he wants to see me badly enough, he’ll be in contact. I’m not going to chase him right now.
Who’s story does this sound like @between1standa?
Everything you just said is/was my life with my ex. I agree with @Oshi @Hanna Nelson and @UrbanOasis fully. Without a doubt..
This is a long response, but you seriously need to not only read it, you need to analyze it, analyze your situation, and understand every single thing I am saying. You need to understand that this will be hard, but I’m speaking fully in your favor and I know this will help you problems. I hope you understand every point I make. I apologize if you become insulted by this because at no means is that is what it is for. But you need someone to be thoroughly and brutally honest with you. You need things truthfully explained to you.
I know that your situation started out a bit different, but now your situation is becoming what mine was..and you walked away unhappy and you know that.
We both are very honest with each other. I understand how you feel about NC, but I think you need to seriously consider it. I think you need to seriously consider all of your options. I know he reacts to it as rejection at first, but in actuality that’s the first step your ex will feel during NC. What you just explained to us proves that he wants to stick around and that he truly does care. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that he does. It is obvious and proven. However, you swore you knew my ex is in love with me, and you are right. But sometimes them loving us isn’t good enough because they still have problems of their own they have to face. I even said this to @UrbanOasis that when they are confused, it has nothing to do with you. Do not take it personal. I used to take it personally with my ex until I realized that 1) He does love me and 2) He still doesn’t have anything figured out. My ex is so back and forth with his own life and future and has no direction whatsoever. So even though he knows he loves me and he knows (as well as I) that he wants a future with me, he has no idea when though and he is only doing what fulfills his needs. The same idea with your ex. By you giving him sex, giving him someone to talk to, giving him support, being around for him, and still trying to see him is fulfilling all of his needs, but it isn’t fulfilling a single one of yours. I completely understand having sex with your ex because 1) I did it with mine and 2) We have needs too and it is much easier to do it with someone your connected too (for most females, so I don’t see you as a slut!!). It actuality he is using you, but I promise you, that he does not see it that way. That he isn’t intentionally using you. He does love you in all honestly.
“I think the problem is either he doesn’t know what he wants, or he does know what he wants and he’s pulling away from the idea.”
You’re absolutely right, about both.. That comes along with the confusion. He doesn’t know what he wants but he does know (he knows he wants you but he doesn’t know when) and that will make him pull away.I read what you said to @Hanna Nelson about the positive and negative perspectives and how you feel that is what everyone looks at. I teared up when I read that because that is EXACTLY what I used to say. I was honest to god in denial. Yes, there was so many positives with my ex and I always stuck with the “he’s confused” excuse (valid excuse). But that’s the problem. That confusion is the biggest negative because no matter how hard you try, you aren’t going to help him solve his confusion as much as that hurts to hear. That negative overpowers your life and you have to understand that. That one negative overrides all the positive. Why? Because as much positive that happens, the confusion (that negative) will never work in your favor. It will create confusion of your own, anxiety, doubt. mind games (with yourself), depression, etc.
Why I support NC with your issue is because he has got to figure out and balance out that confusion on his own. My problem was, I stuck along with my ex for 7 months and he knew that so therefore, nothing helped his confusion because he knew he still had me. I didn’t let him grow and figure out things on his own. I didn’t give him the proper chance to miss me. I gave him a week or a couple days, he’d “miss” me and I’d come back, fulfill his needs, he knew he had me, and he no longer missed me because there was nothing to miss. I was still there. However your ex reacts to it in the beginning, he will end up missing you and he will begin to rethink his decisions and work out with his confusion. He has to do it alone and it sucks but you can’t be in his life while he is trying to figure things out. You can’t be there once in a while. You can’t be there every other day. You can’t text once in a while. Any form of contact he has with you will impact to stretch his confusion out longer.
Also, when I hung on I would always say “I’m just going to ride along with it, appreciate what I have now, and work on myself while I’m hanging it out”. I’ve learned from experience that it is impossible. I’m that “anything is possible” kind of person and someone who is strong as me and who says that just proves that it is impossible. It is impossible because you are not working on yourself fully whatsoever. I lied to myself that whole time, I swear. I gave 30% of my time working on myself and the other 70% on him. I noticed that as I was focusing on every aspect on him, my anxiety and depression came back. Everytime I begin NC, I feel so freaking happy because I’m not worrying about why he isn’t talking to me, if he is still confused or not, why he acts one way one day and then another way the next. There is no doubt in my mind that my ex had any intention of doing that to me. He does care about me, so he wouldn’t do it purposely. But due to the fact that he is so confused, he had no will power or understanding to see that he wasn’t fulfilling me needs whatsoever. It took over my life. I did make changes that 7 months, but I made more changes within 1 week of NC that I ever have. I was finally focusing on me and my happiness and came to the acceptance that if I ever want to have something with him in the future, I have to let him go and let him figure his shit out.
It took me 7 months to get that through my head and it sucks. But it made me stronger because I was able to understand that NC is not just the best way to “get him back”, but to get myself back. There is no way that you will be able to be happy if you keep doing this to yourself.
He is spending time with you, he is giving you attention, he is still physically attracted to you, he still reaches out to you, he still wants you around, but when it comes down to talking about your relationship with one another he automatically shuts down. This is going to keep happening. He has got to figure his shit out, and the only way is NC.
I am so sorry to say that..but this is about helping each other.. I know you don’t want to do NC, and I know the real reason why.. It is because you are absolutely terrified to do so. Trust me, I was there. But there is going to come a point where you are going to realize that you are worth so much more than this. No doubt he is in love with you, but nothing will chance until you do something about it. Trust me, doing that will make him come around. Remember different guys react differently to NC and I know there is an article about it on this site that you must read and understand. He will miss you, he will begin to think clearly, he will unravel his confusion, and he will think of you all the time. Everytime he apologizes, in reality he is apologizing because he knows he doesn’t know what he wants, he knows what you want, and he cares enough to know that he is leading you on to something that he cannot give to you right now.
You need to listen to me when I say that this is your best option. If you don’t feel the need to agree or listen, I repect that. But I know at some point that you will come to realize this. You have to give each other a break. I’m sorry I had to be honest but as soon as I read your post I knew exactly where it is leading and I will be damned if you go through what I did. You can say that you are “happy” but you have so many posts that prove that you are not happy at all. I think you know that but you are denying it because youre only focusing on the phyical and not how it impacts you emotionally and mentally. Trust me, I was there and I know and I relate 100%. Just remember what @UrbanOasis said to me, that you don’t truly miss something until it is gone. Thankfully, this will work wonders in your case if you understand what I mean. In the end it is your decision and I will try my best to help and I give full support!
I did tell @ellie96 that about missing something: “It’s hard to miss something right in your face.” She’s also right about how he feels about you, which I would much rather be in your situation right now than mine because you know he still wants you and is attracted to you. I learned when my ex broke up with me what I really had when I lost it. Your ex will also realize what he had (you) and how much he wants it, but you need to give him time to realize it on his own so that he can miss you. Nothing is more powerful than when someone misses something, because they will do whatever they can to get it back. Ellie was right in that all of that is super hard to do, but it’s worth it. We also all have your back
Thank you, you guys. I read that entire thing and there’s not a single part of it that isn’t true. I really don’t have much to say other than that. I’m sitting here, recollecting on this morning, and it just makes me really sad. He clearly wanted me to ask him to do something, but he wouldn’t just say it or ask me himself. He had to hint at it and beat around the bush to communicate, and that’s not fair to either of us. I don’t hate the idea of not texting him, not initiating hang outs, doing my own thing in the mean time. I just hate the idea of ignoring him if he does contact me or want to see me. I don’t know how that works. It doesn’t make sense to me. I’m making myself sad and in some way, I have to be making him sad too because he’d only ask if he really wanted me to. I know I’m probably just making excuses against NC, or maybe LC would genuinely just be better for me. I don’t know and I’ll leave it to you guys to give me your opinion on the differences between the two. I just know that I’m not getting anywhere now but that he clearly still cares enough that I have the potential to get somewhere if I do something differently. I just need to learn what that difference is and I need a push to continue doing it. I need some support.
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